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> <channel><title>Comments on: Roots of Fight: Helio Gracie vs. Kimura &#8211; Mini Film</title> <atom:link href="http://www.mmatko.com/roots-of-fight-helio-gracie-vs-kimura-mini-film/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.mmatko.com/roots-of-fight-helio-gracie-vs-kimura-mini-film/</link> <description>MMA Videos and News</description> <lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 23:28:29 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator> <item><title>By: Phil_BJJ</title><link>http://www.mmatko.com/roots-of-fight-helio-gracie-vs-kimura-mini-film/comment-page-1/#comment-196508</link> <dc:creator>Phil_BJJ</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2012 03:20:53 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmatko.com/?p=23825#comment-196508</guid> <description><![CDATA[Nice point miso-to-curry. I read you post. Even in our gym a lot has cross trained in Judo in other gym as Muay thai, boxing and BJJ are the only arts offered. They are top level as they have been winning in grappling as well. Nice to read those who really knows and knows what he is talking about especially the philosophy thing.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice point miso-to-curry. I read you post. Even in our gym a lot has cross trained in Judo in other gym as Muay thai, boxing and BJJ are the only arts offered. They are top level as they have been winning in grappling as well. Nice to read those who really knows and knows what he is talking about especially the philosophy thing.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: ^LiverKick^</title><link>http://www.mmatko.com/roots-of-fight-helio-gracie-vs-kimura-mini-film/comment-page-1/#comment-194056</link> <dc:creator>^LiverKick^</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 13:52:43 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmatko.com/?p=23825#comment-194056</guid> <description><![CDATA[@miso-to-curryWho the fuck is going to read  a post that long....NOBODY]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@miso-to-curry</p><p> Who the F*** is going to read  a post that long&#8230;.NOBODY</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: miso-to-curry</title><link>http://www.mmatko.com/roots-of-fight-helio-gracie-vs-kimura-mini-film/comment-page-1/#comment-194021</link> <dc:creator>miso-to-curry</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 04:12:32 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmatko.com/?p=23825#comment-194021</guid> <description><![CDATA[I believe that judo is a very effective martial art, but it is not so prevalence under these reasons1)Real Good Judoka don&#039;t usually end up in mma as they are dedicated to the art of judo except Ronda and Satoshi Ishii, Good judoka don&#039;t usually do too shabby in mma
-Karo Parisyan-before he got all cracked up
-Fedor-(national champion in judo, as well as sambo)
-Rick Hawn-(he was doing good in bellator, until he was robbed of a decision)
-Satoshi Ishii-(was doing good until he thought he could outstrike fedor....LOL)
EXCEPTION: AKIYAMA
-he is a cheater in judo and mma
-he thinks he is such a brawler but he really isn&#039;t hahaha2)Competition-based judo don&#039;t always focus on ne-waza,as it just seems more practical to get back to tachi-waza and get the Ippon, except for kodokan judokas(as they focus on the entire art of judo), Ronda Rousey, some Brazilian judokas3)Difference in Philosophy between judo and mma
-Judo:technique DOMINATES strength, so i always ended up in a dominant position
-BJJ:technique OVERCOME strength,I practice being content at a not dominating position, so what other people sees as bad position is now my strength
Both great philosophy, but here is the differencee.g fullguardIn Judo
Judo Guy on top:YES... I got an YUKKOU, or WAZA-ARI or even an Ippon*time to stand back up OR let me advance my position to a more dominant positionJudo Guy on the bottom(assuming the guy on top didn&#039;t get an ippon): it is better if i just stand up and try to get an IpponIn BJJ
BJJ Guy on the bottom:YES...this is exactly where i want to be, I can do triangles, armbars,omoplata,gogoplata,Kimura, SUBMISSION moves i never even heard off....etcIt will be extremely dangerous for a good judoka to stay in the guard of a good BJJ practitioner, but a good BJJ practitioner cannot do much in a Yoko-shiho-gatame(side control-ish thing) of a good JudokaWhile it seems more practical to be content about a bad position, as you always have to expect the worse in fighting; you won&#039;t have to learn to be content with a bad position, if you always aim to make sure that you are in a more dominant position*If you are showing no awareness of the effectiveness of the other arts, you shouldn&#039;t even call yourself a martial artist, you are simply a man using your body as a weapon-ESPECIALLY JUDOKA, DO（道） of judo is the Tao of taoism, Kanō Jigorō believes that JUDO should be a way of life(or even beyond), that is why he changed the name from Kano Jiu-Jitsu to Judo...becuz jitsu(术） implies craft and purely physical, and Professor Kanō once said &quot;his mission is beyond jitsu(术)&quot;...and he took that believe to his heart, he opposed the Japanese military and that is what ultimately lead to his demise,So if any of you are going &quot;judo trumps and sh*t on all other martial arts, every other martial arts are just bunch of useless garbage&quot; you didn&#039;t even learn judo at all*I have great respect of BJJ practitioners, but sometimes i do feel the &quot;way of gentle and respect&quot; is maybe not so much emphasis(maybe i am wrong), they are great guys, just sometimes watching the Royce and Renzo give me the wrong idea
Royce
-choked a guy little longer while it was obvious
he tapped
-steroid to beat Sakuraba,7 years later
-no respect for other martial arts at all, e.g Matt Hughes&#039;s wrestling
-Deny of losing to YoshidaRenzo-usually nice guy
-But stepping over a guy&#039;s head after Choking him out, that is pretty lowothers are great like Roger Gracie, Demian Maia, just for a family that establish such a great martial arts those two just give it a bad nameThat is why AKIYAMA is no judoka, he maybe a great judo practitioner; but the disrespect he shows by cheating proves that he never learn judo at all in the first place]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that judo is a very effective martial art, but it is not so prevalence under these reasons</p><p>1)Real Good Judoka don&#8217;t usually end up in mma as they are dedicated to the art of judo except Ronda and Satoshi Ishii, Good judoka don&#8217;t usually do too shabby in mma<br
/> -Karo Parisyan-before he got all cracked up<br
/> -Fedor-(national champion in judo, as well as sambo)<br
/> -Rick Hawn-(he was doing good in bellator, until he was robbed of a decision)<br
/> -Satoshi Ishii-(was doing good until he thought he could outstrike fedor&#8230;.LOL)<br
/> EXCEPTION: AKIYAMA<br
/> -he is a cheater in judo and mma<br
/> -he thinks he is such a brawler but he really isn&#8217;t hahaha</p><p>2)Competition-based judo don&#8217;t always focus on ne-waza,as it just seems more practical to get back to tachi-waza and get the Ippon, except for kodokan judokas(as they focus on the entire art of judo), Ronda Rousey, some Brazilian judokas</p><p>3)Difference in Philosophy between judo and mma<br
/> -Judo:technique DOMINATES strength, so i always ended up in a dominant position<br
/> -BJJ:technique OVERCOME strength,I practice being content at a not dominating position, so what other people sees as bad position is now my strength<br
/> Both great philosophy, but here is the difference</p><p>e.g fullguard</p><p>In Judo<br
/> Judo Guy on top:YES&#8230; I got an YUKKOU, or WAZA-ARI or even an Ippon</p><p>*time to stand back up OR let me advance my position to a more dominant position</p><p>Judo Guy on the bottom(assuming the guy on top didn&#8217;t get an ippon): it is better if i just stand up and try to get an Ippon</p><p>In BJJ<br
/> BJJ Guy on the bottom:YES&#8230;this is exactly where i want to be, I can do triangles, armbars,omoplata,gogoplata,Kimura, SUBMISSION moves i never even heard off&#8230;.etc</p><p>It will be extremely dangerous for a good judoka to stay in the guard of a good BJJ practitioner, but a good BJJ practitioner cannot do much in a Yoko-shiho-gatame(side control-ish thing) of a good Judoka</p><p>While it seems more practical to be content about a bad position, as you always have to expect the worse in fighting; you won&#8217;t have to learn to be content with a bad position, if you always aim to make sure that you are in a more dominant position</p><p>*If you are showing no awareness of the effectiveness of the other arts, you shouldn&#8217;t even call yourself a martial artist, you are simply a man using your body as a weapon-ESPECIALLY JUDOKA, DO（道） of judo is the Tao of taoism, Kanō Jigorō believes that JUDO should be a way of life(or even beyond), that is why he changed the name from Kano Jiu-Jitsu to Judo&#8230;becuz jitsu(术） implies craft and purely physical, and Professor Kanō once said &#8220;his mission is beyond jitsu(术)&#8221;&#8230;and he took that believe to his heart, he opposed the Japanese military and that is what ultimately lead to his demise,So if any of you are going &#8220;judo trumps and sh*t on all other martial arts, every other martial arts are just bunch of useless garbage&#8221; you didn&#8217;t even learn judo at all</p><p>*I have great respect of BJJ practitioners, but sometimes i do feel the &#8220;way of gentle and respect&#8221; is maybe not so much emphasis(maybe i am wrong), they are great guys, just sometimes watching the Royce and Renzo give me the wrong idea<br
/> Royce<br
/> -choked a guy little longer while it was obvious<br
/> he tapped<br
/> -steroid to beat Sakuraba,7 years later<br
/> -no respect for other martial arts at all, e.g Matt Hughes&#8217;s wrestling<br
/> -Deny of losing to Yoshida</p><p>Renzo-usually nice guy<br
/> -But stepping over a guy&#8217;s head after Choking him out, that is pretty low</p><p>others are great like Roger Gracie, Demian Maia, just for a family that establish such a great martial arts those two just give it a bad name</p><p>That is why AKIYAMA is no judoka, he maybe a great judo practitioner; but the disrespect he shows by cheating proves that he never learn judo at all in the first place</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: PitfighterZ</title><link>http://www.mmatko.com/roots-of-fight-helio-gracie-vs-kimura-mini-film/comment-page-1/#comment-193820</link> <dc:creator>PitfighterZ</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 22:50:37 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmatko.com/?p=23825#comment-193820</guid> <description><![CDATA[@Sacramento Fan: You can apply that to many other martial arts. The rule set give advantages to different arts. When the Gracies adapted vale-tudo rules to the UFC, they had a few grappling advantages inserted in there. In Japan, they had a lot of rules against strikers in the beginning, which were reduced in Pride, but the whole limitation on what to strike with, when to strike, and how to strike were a main incentive to get American wrestlers to join MMA.
Thank you for your post!
Thank you for]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sacramento Fan: You can apply that to many other martial arts. The rule set give advantages to different arts. When the Gracies adapted vale-tudo rules to the UFC, they had a few grappling advantages inserted in there. In Japan, they had a lot of rules against strikers in the beginning, which were reduced in Pride, but the whole limitation on what to strike with, when to strike, and how to strike were a main incentive to get American wrestlers to join MMA.<br
/> Thank you for your post!<br
/> Thank you for</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: donradikal</title><link>http://www.mmatko.com/roots-of-fight-helio-gracie-vs-kimura-mini-film/comment-page-1/#comment-193772</link> <dc:creator>donradikal</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:32:16 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmatko.com/?p=23825#comment-193772</guid> <description><![CDATA[@ sacramentoAMEN BROTHER!!! ;-)]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ sacramento</p><p>AMEN BROTHER!!! <img
src='http://www.mmatko.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Sacramento Fan</title><link>http://www.mmatko.com/roots-of-fight-helio-gracie-vs-kimura-mini-film/comment-page-1/#comment-193765</link> <dc:creator>Sacramento Fan</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 08:04:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmatko.com/?p=23825#comment-193765</guid> <description><![CDATA[@ KungFuI&#039;m not Kodanjudo but I&#039;ll take a shot at answering your question:Limits on slams is probably the biggest handicap Judo carries in MMA. Allow fighters to spike their opponents onto their head and you&#039;d start seeing more Judo throws and KO&#039;s via Uchi Mata &amp; Seoi Nage.BJJ is literally Judo reworked to focus on the ground game. Helio created BJJ based on the Judo he knew but he refined and improved guard positions and transitions. Since MMA rules favor submissions over throws (for fighter safety) the emphasis BJJ puts on ground fighting is a better grappling base for most MMA fighters.I hate it when people insist one or the other is &quot;more technical&quot; because it really a matter of which part of the game we&#039;re we talking about. In general, Judo has more technical throws, BJJ has a more technical guard, but high level players in either can put your ass or take your arm home at will.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ KungFu</p><p>I&#8217;m not Kodanjudo but I&#8217;ll take a shot at answering your question:</p><p>Limits on slams is probably the biggest handicap Judo carries in MMA. Allow fighters to spike their opponents onto their head and you&#8217;d start seeing more Judo throws and KO&#8217;s via Uchi Mata &amp; Seoi Nage.</p><p>BJJ is literally Judo reworked to focus on the ground game. Helio created BJJ based on the Judo he knew but he refined and improved guard positions and transitions. Since MMA rules favor submissions over throws (for fighter safety) the emphasis BJJ puts on ground fighting is a better grappling base for most MMA fighters.</p><p>I hate it when people insist one or the other is &#8220;more technical&#8221; because it really a matter of which part of the game we&#8217;re we talking about. In general, Judo has more technical throws, BJJ has a more technical guard, but high level players in either can put your ass or take your arm home at will.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Rick Dizzle</title><link>http://www.mmatko.com/roots-of-fight-helio-gracie-vs-kimura-mini-film/comment-page-1/#comment-193762</link> <dc:creator>Rick Dizzle</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 06:45:19 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmatko.com/?p=23825#comment-193762</guid> <description><![CDATA[Grand Pa Gracie and Old Man Lee were true Pioneers of Martial Arts - they&#039;re probably in heaven right now exchanging ideas.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grand Pa Gracie and Old Man Lee were true Pioneers of Martial Arts &#8211; they&#8217;re probably in heaven right now exchanging ideas.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: KungFuLowKick</title><link>http://www.mmatko.com/roots-of-fight-helio-gracie-vs-kimura-mini-film/comment-page-1/#comment-193725</link> <dc:creator>KungFuLowKick</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 21:56:19 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmatko.com/?p=23825#comment-193725</guid> <description><![CDATA[@kodokanjudo
I almost didnt understood anything you said but from what I understood you are saying Judo is better and more technical then Brazilian Jiu jitsu??How come we se MANY BJJ fighters in MMA and VERY FEW judo fighters??]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@kodokanjudo<br
/> I almost didnt understood anything you said but from what I understood you are saying Judo is better and more technical then Brazilian Jiu jitsu??How come we se MANY BJJ fighters in MMA and VERY FEW judo fighters??</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: dub</title><link>http://www.mmatko.com/roots-of-fight-helio-gracie-vs-kimura-mini-film/comment-page-1/#comment-193722</link> <dc:creator>dub</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 21:02:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmatko.com/?p=23825#comment-193722</guid> <description><![CDATA[Ronmar is partially true.  This is just bs.  You challenged and you lost.  Of course its easy to say this and that after the fact that you lost..  sign of a poor loser almost.. A true warrior just admits that he thought he was going to win but got beat..  None of this pussy shit talk, &quot;i knew i was going to lose i just wanted to try it out&quot;.  Don&#039;t get me wrong, Helio is great and probably the best, but durring this match he got beat.  Warriors don&#039;t pussy talk.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronmar is partially true.  This is just bs.  You challenged and you lost.  Of course its easy to say this and that after the fact that you lost..  sign of a poor loser almost.. A true warrior just admits that he thought he was going to win but got beat..  None of this p**** s*** talk, &#8220;i knew i was going to lose i just wanted to try it out&#8221;.  Don&#8217;t get me wrong, Helio is great and probably the best, but durring this match he got beat.  Warriors don&#8217;t p**** talk.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: kodokanjudo</title><link>http://www.mmatko.com/roots-of-fight-helio-gracie-vs-kimura-mini-film/comment-page-1/#comment-193709</link> <dc:creator>kodokanjudo</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 19:28:17 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmatko.com/?p=23825#comment-193709</guid> <description><![CDATA[kimura could have killed him  what a child like man       5&#039;7 84 kg    heilo 180cm about 6  and he was 80kg   well lol we know whats better judo more technical]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kimura could have killed him  what a child like man       5&#8217;7 84 kg    heilo 180cm about 6  and he was 80kg   well lol we know whats better judo more technical</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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